War Eagle Family Tree

[tamara]

thanks so much for sharing the family trees, I really appreciate it. very amazing. now I see that the lebeaux line also goes back to Roy family, correct? very interesting. also the Mato Ite Wakan line is my family and also the Kampeska line does have a John Bear, his name is something different than Mato Ite Wakan according to the census rolls etc. I have always had to be very careful to sort that out for our family.

Tamara

[hermin1]

I have a question re. Eli Abraham. I have a family Tree that shows Eli Abraham as the offspring of Cloud Man and Red Berry Woman. The chart was prepared by Mr. Brill.

I will need some documentation from you re. your information about him.

[tamara]

This is a rough translation and using the Riggs dictionarys


Canhdeska or Tacanhdeska would be Hoop or His Hoop or The Hoop or Circle

Whirlpool is Miniomni ; Wa is snow; ska is white;
-in other words I have no idea other the the words above. lol

[hermin1]

Now that i look at my records, I thought I detected a puzzle see a puzzle:
I have the tree that Brill made up which shows Eli Abraham Hupacokamaza as a child of Cloud man and Red Berry Woman.

Now I checked my notebooks and Cloud Man apparently also went by Wazikuta( or Wagikuta,sp.). So the puzzle is solved.
I also have the following information re. eli Abraham's parents:
Eli's parents are listed as Wazikute and Kumkomhdiwin both dead.(Ref.: The 1902 Register of Santee Indian Families).

Tasinatopewin,w/ o james Redwing was a half sister to Eli Abraham.they had the smae father, but differtent mothers( her mother was Itewakanhdiwin(sp.) according to my information.

Eli was married at least twice:
One of his spouses was Anna B. Brown
The Other spouse was Mary. I don't know what her maiden name was. I am assuming that Mary is the one you mentioned above.
I would very much like to see the documentation for Eli's marriage to Mary. My email is [e-mail]

I guess I don't understand the way you present ed the tree. I also misinterpreted what yousaid about Eli Abraham. I thought that you were saying he was a descendent of War Eagle, and It slipped by me that you were correctly referring to his son Eli (Jr), since eli (SR.) maried a granddaughter of War Eagle

I am assuming that the Eli Abraham you listed in the tree, by himself is Eli Abraham,( Jr). Eli Abraham ,Jr. died at the age of 1 year, 6 months, and 10 days of age, in 1891.

[hermin1]

As for the Abraham family, I have been tying to help some of the descendents of the Arahams with their family tree, and I did provide them with what I had on Eli Abraham and his descendents. and I am still helping them.
I do not recall you listed as being a descendent of the Abrahams.

I do not cllaim to be an expert genealogist. I am an information specialist.

If you had been and had contacted me for help, I would have tried to help you too.

[tamara]

sonda said:

tamara said:

This is a rough translation and using the Riggs dictionarys


Canhdeska or Tacanhdeska would be Hoop or His Hoop or The Hoop or Circle

Whirlpool is Miniomni ; Wa is snow; ska is white;
-in other words I have no idea other the the words above. lol

Thanks, Tamara.
I needed a good laugh to ease the search stress. So, could the translation add up to Snow White and the Circle of Whirling dwarfs?

Thanks for trying. I do appreciate that. I'll let you know if I ever find the answer.

Regards,
Sonda

LOL good one, especially since I was going to add the part where na means little therefore dwarf would work! LOL

sort of like my asking grandma what is wa? she says 'snow, -what is su? she says 'seeds. I say, 'so wasu is snow seeds? She laughs "no, its Hail!!!

[justiceforall]

Yes, Herman1,

Eli Abraham Jr. is the one I was talking about. He married his mother and died before he reached his 2nd birthday. Mary was Eli's first wife and Anna (Brown, name from previous marriage) came later. Busy little one year old wouldn't you say?
Somehow I offended you by not being of Eli Abraham's family line. If one marries into a line, do you think he or she would learn something about that family?
I made two rules for myself when I posted information. One rule was that I would not cause disharmony. If someone had an issue with me, I would try to resolve that issue. If the individual still felt wronged, I would remove my information.
I removed it. I will try to figure out a way to present my material without making references to a husband's or wife's families. The Renvilles are going to be a challenge.
Peace be with you.

[tamara]

I for one study many family lines that I do not claim connection to. I keep I all read as I always seem to find someone who needs it and it makes me happy to be able to pass it on.
I think it is very hard to work with genealogy if one worries about causing disharmony. The differences in knowledge are where we learn the most. I see nothing wrong in what you presented and appreciate herman1 ability to doublecheck and ensure that everything put out there clicks with everything else, (I know you do that for all of us, especially a line that you work so closely with). I see nothing offensive in your posts, in fact am quite appreciate for it. I would wish for you to contribute freely without such concerns as you have mentioned. Especially since, I feel as though you were "just getting started" and have me very very curious as to what else you might know or have access to! I can sense when someone knows just the type of things that I am trying to learn more about! Yes, the Renvilles are going to be a challenge in any aspect, and it is an undertaking that I have wanted to try start, work with someone on, or try to contribute to, for sometime now. I have seen many family trees of the Renvilles but would like to see a thorough one, built in indian country and with native resources. I would expect it to be scrutinized often and even challenged. No doubt there would be some disharmony and full of footnotes and family statements. I would welcome it all! oh, and for the record, I am not in the Renville line, just an information specialist apprentice at best. Or maybe, History Hunter, Genealogy Glutton, Ancestry Animal, Family History Fanatic... you get the picture!

[hermin1]

justiceforall: I apologize for giving you the wrong idea. I am not offended. In factthe information you posted re. the Abrahams was what I was looking for.
Elii Abraham (Jr).'s burial information listed him as the son of Eli and Mary Abraham. He is buried at the Congregational Cemetery at Santee.
I do believe, that the Abrahams in Santee and the ones I have been helping are connected somehow. I just have been unable to find the connecting link.I would sure appreciate any information you would be able to send me about the Abrahams you have listed as alfred's offspring on the Tree.
I should have explained, that I was contacted by the other Abrahams privately.
We on the staff have to be cautious, I believe , because there are people out there who have been printing out the information we provide to people who ask for help, and then packaging the material and selling it to others.
when people post a request for informatkion, I check my 'archives so to speak' then I go to my genealogy "haunts" to see what i can find for the requester

And from talking to other genealogists, I have learned that a ood genealogist, and even an information specialist, should have documentation for the information he obtains.

In this lawsuit, the key word is DOCUMENTATION. You have to have documentary proof for wha t you present in re. to your ancestors. to prove they should be LD's.

I echo, Tamara's appreciation for your posting the trees you have thus far. And to keep my mom from turning over in her grave at my bad manners, I heartily welcome you to our website.

Please, for our sakes, do not remove what you have posted. it is a treasure trove. of information that you have found. You have no idea how hard it has been to find anything at all on War Eagle ,,,other than what little the librarian here in Sioux City told me. I was amazed that one of War Eagle's descendents whom I met a couple months ago, who did not know much about Wr Eagle, just her branch of his descendents.

I have spent some more time looking at your Trees and , gladly admit, as did the blind man, when he said,"Now I see, said the blind man when he picked up his hammer and saw,. the trees do make sense.Please forgive my stupidity in this.
In working with the genealogies of some of the local Santees, I tried various methods of showing them their family lines, and after several frustrating attempts, found that a simple Tree diagram sufficed and was simple for some of them to understand. The method of presentation set out at www.rootsweb.com World Connect Project link , sufficed for the others.So when I get information on a family , I make up the family "tree" both ways.

I would still wouldl very much appreicate getting a copy of that marriage record you spoke about in re. to Eli Abraham. it willhelp one of Eli's descendents with filing their papers for the lawsuit. I thank you in advance.

I agree with you and Tamara, in re. to the Renvilles. they are a big handful. in trying to tosort out. I don't envy anyone who is related tot hem . I remember when i was looking for my dad's roots, I had over 300 people name Kounas in Greece that I had to contend with.

[justiceforall]

Herman1

You are an honorable person and wise. I stand corrected before you and wish to apologize to you.

My family often accuses me of taking what they call "Intellectual leap;" in other words I sometimes change subjects on them and they have no idea that I did so they do not know what I am talking about. I get statements like, "I thought we were talking about this or what happen, our we on a new subject?"

My mind was jumping around with your comments; then, I settled done and said, "This person has always shown generousity, a care for others, has access to a lot of material, intellectually goes through the material, shows a sharp wit at times but gives 100% of self to the people," so what am I missing because I am not listening properly.

Then I found the problem. I have been trying to switch my information to a different program and messed up.

I transposed information on Mary Longfoot, your Mary and Nancy Longfoot who was married to Eli Abraham Sr. Now, I have to stop everyting I was doing and check on every bit of information I have on all anscetors and all family trees.

I apologize to everyone who checks on this site for raising any hopes or causing disappointment.

I thank you Herman1 for your determination to seek the truth. I bow to your wisdom and humbly say I am sorry.

God be with you

Justice for all: I once had a microbial genetics professor who would leap around his subject matter. By the time a lecture was over, we would be dizzy from trying to follow his leaps.

You had Alfred Abraham (the one you listed separate) correct. Eli and Mary did have a son named Eli(jJr.) He's the one that died very young.
Please repost your beautiful tree on War Eagle.
Here is some additional data I found for it:
alred Abraham's wife,victoria Wolfe was the youngest daughter of Samuel and Julia Collins of Santee, NE.
Julia Collins's mother was the wife of William /bean ?Sr.(aka chief blue Cloud). Her mother's maiden name was Dixon.
On the worldturners:
David Worldturner was born Mar. 1859 in So. Dakota
His spouse Emma was born Dec. 1870 in North Dakota
their son Joshua was born Oct. 1894 inNorth Dakota
their other son Obid was born March,1898 in
So. Dakota
ref. is 1900 US Census rouse,chas-Mix,Sdakota
______________
Gladys Worldurner was born 3 Jun. 1919, Greenwood,Chas Mix, SD.
She died 3 Jun 1972 South Dakota
Parents were Joshua ( born @1904 South Dakota and died 1930 Highland, chas-Mix,SD)and Emma Victoria Le Claire
Her spouse Charles Holiday was born 3 Mar. 1919 and died 17 Nov. 1962 Pierre,Hughes,SD
Ref. Ancestry.com World Family Tree
Hope this helps you fill out the tree.

[tamara]

wow... you both make me appreciate this board and the sentiment behind it. I am greatly impressed with it all.

We all have to regroup and double check, find ourselves doubting our own information and then starting over again. We are told often when we read posted information either on this board or a genealogy website, etc, that we need to verify and doublecheck. I appreciate being able to see this process in a person's work and posts on this board. That is exactly how we further our knowledge.

What program are you currently using? I am working with Family Tree Maker but havent been able to take the time to enter everything yet. A very wise historian I know had pointed out that there is not a program that allows for our native culture, hunka relationships etc. Wouldnt that be great? To be able to enter indian names, even up to three of them?

Back to the War Eagle line. I am still attempting to understand the War Eagle family's place in the issues of the Wolfchild lawsuit. I realize that it is easy to recognize them as a group by such a well known ancestor but since War Eagle himself had passed on before the uprising, he would not be the person to connect to as a beneficiary, although certainly a loyal indian person/chief. Has anyone seen him on previous Mdewakanton Rolls? prior to 1862? I see from the information posted that the daughters Anpao and Blazing Cloud also had passed on by or around the time of the removal act... I am confused. I understand the relationship to Andrew Goodthunder who would be a nephew of War Eagle and cousin to Brugier wives but unless the issue is collateral descendancy then it doesnt make sense to me yet.

Also.. (thanks for bearing with me) Who are the women Anpao and Ahlawin ages 75 and 76 on the first page of the Santee register numbers 4 and 5, in 1902? doesnt that seem like their names?

eternally greatful for any help available..
Tamara

tamara;
the women you mention in the 1902 Santee Census:
#4 is Ahewin her parents were listed as Mahpiyahda aka tinzipe and Zuyapidan. Her maternal grandfather was Tawotaheduta.
Ahewin was married to bushman chapman in 1869 by Ind. cust. and they divorced in 1870 /75 also by Ind. Custom.
_______________________
Anpa:
she was married to Kakpankpanku-deceased.
Her parents were Tatiku, mother : n/a
Her children were:
Sarah Ironheart #421 on the 1902 Santee Census,
Frank Jones #479 on the 1902 Santee Census
Wicanhpikoyakewin #1025 on the 1902 Santee census.
her first spouse was

[wazi]

Wamniyomniyomniskana------I believe it is either White Whirlwind or Shakes or Moves Whirlwind.

sonda said:

Re: War Eagle family tree.

By chance do you know the English names for Elizabeth Iron Shaker's spouse (s)?
Tacankdeska and ?Wamniyomniyomniskana?

2. Elizabeth Iron Shaker or Shaking Iron/ Mazayushanskanwin
& (Tacankdeska)
& (~ Wamniyomniyomniskana)

I have Jacob Otherday as her husband. Is this not correct?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Sonda

[rose]

tamara, i am interested in your post.....how did you come about that, andrew goodthunder is a nephew of wareagle, and do you have any documentation on this....if so i would love to have it...my email is [e-mail]......thank you,rose

[hermin1]

Someone recently sent me a tree that they prepared with Microsoft Excel. and it really was very well done.But it took a lot of work I will bet.
Has anyne worked with a GEDCOM before?

[tamara]

I am in the process of verifying all that I have been told. I am sorry I have not documentation of this but was told this by a descendant who has put much effort into her research. I will post what I find, I am starting to put this out there to see if we can get to the bottom of a few questions on the family line.

Tamara

[peacetoall]

Tamara,

I may be wrong but what I saw in Justiceforall's work was an awakening that families are becoming aware of who they really are and how they fit in history. Perhaps, Justiceforall was trying to connect families together rather than provide documentation for the Wolfchild case.

I kind of find it ironic that even we are indirectly acknowledging that the 1886/1889 group in Minnesota are the true Mdewakantons by saying we have to be connected to them directly or collaterally. We know there are Wahpeton individuals on those lists along with individuals that were convicted for fighting, we know the "good" Indians were harboring a "bad" Indian on Faribault's land; in addition, the wife of that so called "bad" Indian was allowed to remain in Minnesota even though the "good" Indians were shipped to Crow Creek, and that "good" Indian like Andrew Good-Thunder who was eventually shipped out of Minnesota was not killed for revenge by the angry "bad" Indians. Let us not try the Wolfchild case here, let the lawyers battle that out. What would help best is to pray for the Judge that he be granted wisdom to make a just decision. Let us find family, and with a little bit of luck, we might find some interesting documentation. And according to what we'll find and to poke fun at a commerical, "Sometimes, you'll find a nut, and sometimes, you won't." Thank God for variety.

For Herman1

If you are afraid of someone using your original work, slap a copyright emblem on it or write copyrighted. The material will be covered until you do file a copyright for it. Businesses or individuals cannot use it without permission. However, your information cannot be part of the public domain.

Hang in there everyone!

[tamara]

I think you are correct in desire to connect families rather than provide documentation. I for one, have been researching for purposes other than this lawsuit, and have been for years prior to hearing of this. Same is true with many people on this board. That said, we have to keep in mind that there are people who will view or use the postings of information for documentation or a basis to work from, because of the lawsuit. I tend to approach everything from a combined prespective. If my own words implied Hermin1's focus on a family line in assisting them, to mean a desire to not allow use of it by others, I greatly apologize or else you are not reading the sentiment behind the previous postings correctly. Hermin1 would never feel that way and I challange anyone to find an example of that type of attitude in anything she has done in the past. She of all people collects to share and does a darn good job of ensuring the information to be correct and be used for the purposes of the lawsuit as well as for personal familiy knowledge. I think you are a bit off base in your perspective of what you are reading from Hermin1, myself and Justiceforall. As for the "indirectly acknowledging the 1886 and 89 rolls" as being the true Mdwakanton, we have covered that point at great length and I think that there are many of us, myself included that have rallyed together to show that we dont accept the perpetuation of that idea and the goverments attempts to define who we are or who we are not. I dont think that it makes sense to ignore the 86 or 89 roll in order to make that point, but Mr Kitto is much better at summing up that issue and does so quite well, so I will skip that part. I can appreciate very much your perspective and welcome the review of these very important and valid points. If by reviewing the issues and voicing opinion and idea is a "trying of the case", then so be it, as that is how we seem to learn much. I think it is important to look at the bigger picture, what takes place in this case will lay a foundation (good or bad) for the future, and we have nothing to loose by being proactive. If it were not for these things we would not have intervenors and the opportunity to present to the court more than the narrow view of MKLaw and others.

Tamara
PS "hang in there" implies that we are struggling... Personally, I dont feel that way, I feel excited, strong and positive. the very fact that the intervenors will have their day, regardless of outcome, is a win and a statement in itself!

[hermin1]

Tamara: right on!!! I agree wholeheartedly. the Interveners deserve to have theirday in court.

the one who has confused this issure is Buttes.

i also feel that I need to clarify something, about the way I work on this project:
When a family contacts me privately to do a search for them, I ask them if they are agreeable to sharing the information they have sent me(ie. Probates, etc)and that I have found for them, with others.and I abide by their wishes.,I also keep their identity confidential as well as thei information I obtainfor them.

The majority of the families have been very generous in allowing me to share their information with others.

I have several families who have requested that I refer anyone who contacts me and asks for this information, to their family spokesperson(s) so they can deal with reuester themselves

Because of the way I work with the families who contact me, I have been ostracized by a member o f the First Nations Outreach Center in Sioux City,whose policy re. their genealogy files is, that anyone who contacts or comes to the Center searching for gemealogical records,and/or information should and will be allowed to do their search and obtain copies.

I want to make it clear that I have never been employed by either the Center's forerunner( Native Family Resources Center), nor the current Center itself. I volunteered my help with obtaining documentation, and other records for their files, and helping people that the Center referred to me,just as I have been doing for the families that have contacted me privately.

Suffice it to say,that I have been barred from the First Nations Outreach Center.

So folks don't look for me there anymore.I will continue to help anyone who posts a request for help here at the web site, and those who contact me privately.

peacetoall: you missed the point of myposts.
anything that i find in the public domain ie Cnesusesetc.) I can't get a copyright on. It is the private papers, ie Probate and Heirship Reports , and other recordsthat are not in the public domainthat I will not releasewithout the family's okay.

[peacetoall]

Tamara,

"I am still attempting to understand the War Eagle family's place in the issues of the Wolfchild lawsuit."

Why does one have to understand their place? It is more important that they understand their place. Why understand anyone's place? That statement indicates judgement.

"Hang in there" was for those of us who feel frustrated that we cannot find the documentation we want or have a difficult time getting it, and, for those of us who cannot find that missing link. Boy, I have felt that way many a time. But, there is hope because good people come along at a time when we feel our lowest and provide us with material or lift our spirit---li-li-li-li-like the wonderful Herman1. Take my words any way you want, but I will say this here and now, I admire Herman1.

Herman1 mentioned that there were some who were taking material from this site and selling it. I was trying to make a helpful suggestion in hopes that copyrighting the material would prevent that. Geez, sorry.

Maybe we all need to take a nap to restore our energies and calm our souls. I am not interested in exchanging a battle of words. If I was I would have gotten on that other web site and just vented away. I came to this one because of the politeness which seems to be disappearing. What happened?

[tamara]

My wanting to understand their "place" in the issues it simply because I have been trying to supply their attorney with the type of evidence that supports their case. Each family has a different set of circumstances as it relates to the lawsuit, and anything that I might be able to gather or find that supports their claim might help. Same is true with the Big Eagle family and others. They all need different types of evidence and in order to make the strongest arguement possible for each family, I wish to be well versed on the family's information or "place". It hadnt occurred to me that my wording might be offensive to the War Eagle family. I have much respect and good will towards them and their history. I stand by all that I say but do apologize if I have sounded impolite.